S(ecure) Q(uery) L(anguage)?

Concerning the thread:
microsoft.public.sqlserver.programming
Nov 10, 2008
"cascading deletes"
http://tinyurl.com/6nwjmd

For some reason I couldn't get my reply to post thru OE (it got thru
via google though). Perhaps there's an MS filter for metaphors ☺
In any event any mature adult should be able to handle it. So here's
my reply with a touch of creative writing ☺

'Most women believe men think with their tool. And it's just as true in
IT. Users model business problems in terms of the abilities of their
db. The idea that modeling exists independent of ones db is a myth.
It's not a question of seepage but of flooding. Modeling business
problems in terms of the available sql server constructs is messy
precisely because their immature and superficial to the task. The
result is you turn away from the db and towards the do-it-myself
model. You roll around in your own layer because you can't get layered
by the db. It's ridiculous to write a join procedurally but when it
comes to modeling it's perfectly acceptable to roll your own. Because
the model equivalent of the join is so lacking and messy. The genie
isn't going back in the sql server bottle. It's simply to far gone. 
That's why I advocate Dataphor. There the genie is in the join as well
as the modeling. Use Dataphor and put your tool back where your head
and shoulders are. You can still use sql server. But you aren't going
to get tooled by it :)'

www.dataphor.org
www.beyondsql.blogspot.com

Geoff Schaller wrote:
> Andre.

> I vote with Hugo here. We manage everything from code, not from TSQL in
> SSMS or via some other mechanism so we generally have to code everything
> (and that is not as difficult or as expansive as it sounds). Whilst
> cascading referential integrity is "nice" from a simplicity point of
> view, we've found that the act of deleting something (say an invoice) is
> almost never a simple thing. There is reversal of stock levels,
> rebalancing totals and if others are running reports when you thought
> you wanted to do the delete, it gets messy.

> The other thing is that we quite often have to delete the child entries
> individually or prevent the parent from being deleted because a child or
> two cannot be. Writing all that logic into a trigger and enforcing the
> rollback is quite complex. I find code an easier way to manage and
> maintain this.

To add insult to injury my reply to a post on SQLServerCentral was hacked (edited).

SQLServerCentral 
11/10/2008
'Arrays in Stroed Prcoedure'
http://tinyurl.com/5th5n4

My reply, as shown there under the name rog pike, was edited to read:  
  
'An array is a 'type', something the archaic computer science of sql knows
nothing about. You have to move to a 'real' relational system to find a
list/array type. You'll find such adult computer science in Dataphor.'
 
My orginal reply was a follows:

'Arrays are in sql server in the same sense as having sex by yourself which may account for
the shortsightedness of so many sql mavens. An array is a 'type', something the archaic computer
science of sql knows nothing about. You have to move to a 'real' relational system to find
a list/array type. You'll find such adult computer science in Dataphor.'

Is the site for mature adults or for the whole family? ☺ Just how much protection
does sql and its users need? Is this a security or, better yet, an insecurity problem? ☺

Finally, I'll repeat here what I posted in the above thread:

'Apparently someone complained/reported something I wrote as being objectionable. They
got their wish as it was magically extracted from the text. What was yanked, besides
my chain, was a metaphor, albeit a vivid one, to drive a salient point home. Now I
write for adults, I don't do child-speak very well. Nor do I have a predilection 
to only write drone-on-speak. So, if I can, I won't hesitate to use an adult metaphor
to amplify a point in an industry that is usually tone deaf. God forbid IT encourage
ability in something other than code or pixels. So if you are an adult, with a surname
other than anonymous, please explain just what you found R or X rated. Mature adults
usually confront conflicts thru the front door not the back one.'